Important Tracker News *vote Or Die*

[swe crusader]

I say yes for this.. iv ote yes

[vincent_10_27]

Originally Posted by one00proof

WHAT?! you mean the hentai vote also counts as yes?! it should count as undecided, because its supposed to be a joke after all. thats just not fair... this poll is one sided. Theres two yes an one no... looks like the admins were planing to use that new system no matter the results

It should be just between yes and no, forget the hentai and undecided votes.

It's not about being fair or not. It's just to make people READ and understand what the whole issue is. Delta put a warning on the beginning saying that the hentai vote is a joke and will be counted towards yes. If the hentai voters would read this then obviously there are only three options in this poll, yes, no, or undecided. But the hentai was added because other users doesn't really care long as they can get hentai. And since they're only for hentai, they wouldn't care about ratios and etc.

It would be unfair if Dela simply said that "ALL HENTAI VOTES ARE COUNTED AS YES". But he said to read through the whole thing and decide. That's why it is "VOTE OR DIE". Now, it's not the admins' fault if someone voted for hentai but he/she really want to vote for no.

Basically, the other two options, undecided and hentai, were also means of evaluating how many users of DAT are aware for the planned changes.

And if everyone can please stop talking about the poll being stupid or unfair and read through the whole point of discussion, we, the moderators, will very much appreciate it.

I'm inclined to vote yes because that's what the people who actually run the site would is like to do. And because I believe in maximum freedom.

All I care about is torrent speed and continuation. I can see reasonable technical arguments on both sides, but I can't really judge and have to trust the administrators to decide what will make the site work best -- on the basis of torrent speed and how long torrents last, please.

I don't care at all if people "leech" or maintain ratios, as long as the overall effect of a change is good speed and continuation. In reading this thread, I feel that too many (not all) opponents of the change are opposing out of pride in their ratios and disdain for "leechers." Is it possible that by opening things up, you may lose by having some rampant leechers, but gain by having a much larger user base?

To be frank, I don't care about any "community," either. I'm not here for companionship, I'm here to give and get torrents. I torrent seiyuu videos and raw mangas here from time to time, and usually download DA torrents through Tokyotosho. If you can make this as useful as Tokyotosho, I'm all for it, especially since I sometimes worry what would happen if that site went down for some reason. It's good to have more than one good site of that kind.

I also use the Chinese sites Greedland and Dmhy, which are both somewhat similar to what you are thinking of, perhaps: trackers that are also listing sites. I gave up on Boxtorrents long ago. For whatever reason, it was always slow and a pain to negotiate.

I had trouble maintaining any sort of ratio when I was on dial-up. Now that I'm on DSL, and especially with utorrent, where I can more easily manage torrents and set it so that my torrents will stop after I have reached a good + ratio, and I don't have to keep worrying about them, I find that I am keeping fairly good ratios all round.

[wildchild]

Originally Posted by vincent_10_27

It's not about being fair or not. It's just to make people READ and understand what the whole issue is. Delta put a warning on the beginning saying that the hentai vote is a joke and will be counted towards yes. If the hentai voters would read this then obviously there are only three options in this poll, yes, no, or undecided. But the hentai was added because other users doesn't really care long as they can get hentai. And since they're only for hentai, they wouldn't care about ratios and etc.

It would be unfair if Dela simply said that "ALL HENTAI VOTES ARE COUNTED AS YES". But he said to read through the whole thing and decide. That's why it is "VOTE OR DIE". Now, it's not the admins' fault if someone voted for hentai but he/she really want to vote for no.

Basically, the other two options, undecided and hentai, were also means of evaluating how many users of DAT are aware for the planned changes.

And if everyone can please stop talking about the poll being stupid or unfair and read through the whole point of discussion, we, the moderators, will very much appreciate it.

agreed 100%

It helps to always read before replying.

I said before I agree with the move. Dat is trying to be bigger and better I would think thats what most people would want. It's like I told someone else,even a turtle has to stick his neck out to get anywhere. Do we want to move up or stay in the same place?

I am currently more inclined to give a "no" vote. I will make a vote on Fri. 10/6, but first I would like to outline a few points.

Things I currently like about datorrents:
- Ratios (good to have, helps with older torrents)
- Ability to add threaded style comments to torrents (view comments link)
- Controlled content (less chance of viri/corrupt files)

As far as indexing goes, it might work provided content does not expand beyond its current focus. Places like Piratebay and torrentspy are messy jungles that I avoid at all costs.

If datorrents could become an indexing site with a cross model between what it is, and what hongfire offers, I think that would be ideal.

I vote yes. Ok now for my reasoning. Give the idea a chance if it doesn't work than relook at it. But currently the current method is not working especially with many clients picking up DHT capability. So new ideas have to be tried. If it fails than try a different idea until one is found that works well. Maybe figure out perks for those that are active in the forums.. special forums for good standing members,ect. This will help keep the community a community.

Currently I tend to mainly visit animesuki because of it's openeness and the sheer volume of users makes the anime fansub forums very very active. No other site has such an active forum and it requires being very public and open to build that type of community. If you get a very active community as active as Animesuki than you got your seeders because a request will mean someone will answer that request.

So my reasoning is to go to an indexer and put more focus on building up a very active community that people flock to like the animesuki forums.

Well, first off, I'll just say I vote no. I just want to share my thoughts on ratios, (and reiterate some points made):

Originally Posted by JSmith99

I don't think ratios enforce sharing. Ratios enforce people uploading for the sake of a big ratio so they can swing it around and act like they're better than others. I left hongfire because I couldn't stand that there.
My vote is emphatically yes.

I feel you on that one. I've always felt it would be best to just show any ratio above 1 as ">1". A ratio of 8.5 I consider to be a BAD ratio because all you are doing is making it harder for those with slower uploads to seed (it's hard enough already). On another site, I dropped off a torrent early (<1:1) because the uploader had a poor ratio and desperately needed to upload (near getting banned). So yes, technically I've done a hit-and-run. He has a >1 ratio now and is getting used to the ratio thing.

Originally Posted by vincent_10_27

I'll admit a fact that I was once banned on a fully private tracker. Why? cause I downloaded 1GB and I can't seed a good amount of ratio cause there are no leechers. But I am seeding the file.

So you were a member at OiNK, I take it? I a member of a bunch of sites, and I've noticed that there's a "sweet spot" of seeder/leecher ratio, and you don't want too many leechers, but you don't want too many seeders either. Leechers and even dare I say it "Hit and runners" serve a purpose. They help other users get their ratios up to a suitable level, then they get banned. In my opinion, OiNK's ratio system is broken -- It's difficult to share music you love and share it back in a reasonable ammount of time. Most sites I can grab a torrent and seed it back within a day or two. And yes, I see mods on some sites giving out the standard line of "Limit your download speed", "Keep seeding", etc.. but on some sites it doesn't work. You have to grab a popular torrent you might not even want, especially if you go for underrated or niche stuff. Not so bad here at DAT I should note though; They're not too strict or too lenient with ratios, barring errors. Also the unbanning thing is a failsafe I guess.

This isn't to say I'm for doing away completely with ratios; I think becomming an index would make it less of a community, and there would be a shift in content towards the more popular stuff--i.e. the stuff you can get anywhere. I joined here because I found a torrent I couldn't find anywhere else, and I don't see that kind of thing sticking around if we become a big index site. I could be wrong though, time will tell.

[Sebur]

I still want my download to go as fast as possible. Just because someone has a bad connection and a bad ratio doesn't mean we should let him seed alone.
It sucks waiting weeks for a series and I also don't seed just to boast about my ratio. I seed so that i'll be able to download more later and so it will go faster for the leechers. since we have a ratio system the leechers will seed after they finish downloading so I wont need to anymore. If Da turns into a index not even half of those that would have seeded after downloading the torrent will seed after they are done.
Also most of the people that are seeding are seeding because they have bad ratio.

[vincent_10_27]

Originally Posted by SpiderDave

So you were a member at OiNK, I take it? I a member of a bunch of sites, and I've noticed that there's a "sweet spot" of seeder/leecher ratio, and you don't want too many leechers, but you don't want too many seeders either. Leechers and even dare I say it "Hit and runners" serve a purpose. They help other users get their ratios up to a suitable level, then they get banned. In my opinion, OiNK's ratio system is broken -- It's difficult to share music you love and share it back in a reasonable ammount of time. Most sites I can grab a torrent and seed it back within a day or two. And yes, I see mods on some sites giving out the standard line of "Limit your download speed", "Keep seeding", etc.. but on some sites it doesn't work. You have to grab a popular torrent you might not even want, especially if you go for underrated or niche stuff. Not so bad here at DAT I should note though; They're not too strict or too lenient with ratios, barring errors. Also the unbanning thing is a failsafe I guess.

This isn't to say I'm for doing away completely with ratios; I think becomming an index would make it less of a community, and there would be a shift in content towards the more popular stuff--i.e. the stuff you can get anywhere. I joined here because I found a torrent I couldn't find anywhere else, and I don't see that kind of thing sticking around if we become a big index site. I could be wrong though, time will tell.

Nope I've only registered to few private trackers and OiNK's not one of them. The private tracker I've been with has a good tracking system. My ratio get's updated every query of my status from the client. And I never lose a single point of ratio on their tracker.

Actually, if you read abit more, it was already mentioned that DAT will still be having its own tracker aside from the index service. And all of the contents of the current tracker will be transferred on the new one. So, all of the hard to find things will still be there and DAT will still be providing stuffs from release groups who are using our tracker.

The only real issue here is DAT's buggy ratio system.

We hope that everyone would understand why we would like to implement this ratio free system.

First, we get complaints(and tons of them) about why the ratio is not updating properly and why is it not fixed yet and we even get some issues about Peer Exchange and DHT from other users affecting our tracking system. We told everyone that we will get into this. The only ways to solve this problem are:
1. To go fully private
2. To remove the ratio system
Then now, we are asking from the users what would they want, and if they vote no for change, i hope that all of them DO UNDERSTAND that to let the DAT stay as it is, will make our ratio system no better than what we have right now. Although we will be moving to new tracker, the ratio system will still have its flaws as Delta aforementioned.

And I hope that people will vote not for themselves. Although registering and using our tracker means so much to us, I hope that everyone make their votes for the improvement of DAT.

I don't want to repeat myself over and over again as I am becoming redundant, I just want everyone to understand that this poll is at big stake right now and I hope that everyone tries to input not just opinions but rather experience. If you are saying that you feel this would happen, think over again and don't just jump to conclusions.

And if ever this thread got its results and decisions are made, I hope that there won't be any harsh feelings or regret towards the changes cause we all decided and voted for it. I also hope to see everyone around even if the change is not in your favor. Remember your purpose why you voted for your choice is the community. Without the community, we are nothing. So if you fight for what you stand, you know that you are part of the community(even if you barely keep your ratios up or just lurking around), so please stay on DAT whatever changes might happen. Thanks.

[seorang]

From an IRC convo in #thestaff today.

«ChibiNyaa» So, is Delta thinking "XBTT with auto_register = 1"?
«ChibiNyaa» If so, tell him not to.
«ChibiNyaa» It's absolutely insane since you will have no control whatsoever over the content being spread
«ChibiNyaa» XBTT makes it possible to have it all, ratios for members and unrestricted guest access.
«ChibiNyaa» Set the members up with unique passkeys and have guests default to a specific guest passkey.
«%seorang» it possible to setup members with unique passkeys, and default guest passkey for everybody else?
«ChibiNyaa» It's absolutely insane to use auto_register = 1.
«ChibiNyaa» Of course.
«%seorang» is that complicated?
«ChibiNyaa» The following is done in the frontend (PHP): Member logged in? => Get passkey and put it in the torrent => Reencode torrent.
«ChibiNyaa» Else: Get universal "same-for-everyone" passkey and do the same as above.

So can it be done that members get unique passkeys, but everybody else gets a guest/default passkey?