It's The Beginning of The End ...

[prh99]

I am not a furry fan and don't visit that section, but I can only think of Three possibilities for keeping it. Those individuals who continue to post sexyfur stop and start following the rules (no sign of that happening even though the gallery has been closed twice before a wiped out once) or moderators start having to approve every image that gets posted in the furry section (which doesn't sound all that practice if it can even be setup. Sounds like too much work for just one section). Finally, the furry gallery could be locked except for maybe contributions by moderators.

I think a few people are going to end up ruining it for the rest. Given the choice between the furries going or DaT possibly getting shutdown I'd vote dump the furries. No sense letting everything be brought down for one section.

[Soran]

Originally Posted by KiraRin

I know I don't contribute to the site, but is there any way to make the furry section members only? That way, there would be a tighter way to control what goes in there. Only people who have been approved can post there, but everyone can enjoy maybe?

H.

Originally Posted by seorang

But how do you know who should be approved? Cause some will probably say, "I won't post SexyFur", but will post it, either out of sheer stupidity or ignoring the rules.

I still would give it a try (just like KiraRin suggested). Not sure if it will completely eliminate SexyFur uploads but I guess it would at least greatly reduce them.

Below are some ideas which may be boring even for admins, so I'd put them in a [ spoiler ] if this function was available...

######################################### spoiler
I also would suggest to set a minimum postcount + {have been DAT member for X days} as requirement for joining the Furry group - unless it's too difficult to implement. I just checked what is possible in vB 364 and it seems that a minor hack would be necessary.

Idea: promotion to "Registered Plus" after X posts and Y days (and not negative rep.). Only users with member group "Registered Plus" can apply for "Furry". And this is the tricky part because there doesn't seem to be "must be member of GroupA + GroupB to be able to post in ForumC". Not sure about the permissions in Gallery but guess they're similar.

A possible workaround: let them apply for Furry group regardless of whether they are in Registered Plus but set up the permissions so that they have to have the permissions of both groups to post (i.e. Registered Plus = View, Furry = Post, I just tested it - the permissions write>read are NOT inherited, and even if there was a trick to post without viewing the section I don't think anyone will bother)
The problem with this workaround (which probably would be possible without hacking the scripts) - to view the Furry section either everyone would have to apply for Furry group OR new users (without X posts and Y days of forum membership) would not see Furry section.

May be also some check that they really understand the rules. For example you've to answer the question "What may I NOT post in the furry gallery?"
( though I guess it would be not easy to implement )
############################################ /spoiler

I'm not into furry, but I still think it would be sad if DAT closed its doors for furry fans. As loli fan I know very well how the furry fans will feel : (

[M-3THUG]

I'm not sure if you are willing to go to such lengths, but perhaps have a usergroup that can see the furry section and have all the others not be able to? This way we can cut down on new people coming and submitting SF material.

[ichigo]

Some good ideas, yes.

I still have issues with this on many levels. First off, 34+ have voted , a majority of them seem to think that no change needs to happen. Yet, theres a substantial LACK of posts from them explaining WHY they feel that way. Registered users with zero posts = you're here to vote for keeping them, and don't care if something should happen to the entire community in the process? It may seem drastic, but I'll equate it this way. Demolish an entire town and run everyone out, simply because of a bad neighborhood that doesn't follow common sense, or simple laws or in this case, a very loose set of guidelines to follow.

I understand it from both points of view, having been on the other end of it with all of the anti loli things that went on last year and such.

As things stand currently, we have Neo256, imageboard mod, and STRICTLY for the furry section. Even with that, there are times that yes, he's unable to be online, or something happens, and other mods easily cover, so its not an issue. The issue is, placing restrictions "you need X posts in order to join this usergroup, and then have to apply for THIS group, in order to view/post to furries" means simply one of two things. People will not bother at ALL contributing meaningful things, they'll simply spam boards or threads till getting X posts. At which point, I am more likely to have their account deleted. Or they actually play by the rules.

Given the fact that the furry section of the community, has repeatedly violated the rules in the past, directly leading to the suspension of the furry category TWICE, and a complete wipe once...

Saying "I'll help police that section", or "I'll daily go thru there and make sure there's no sexyfur" does NOT cut it. EVERY user has a nice little bar that includes an option to report this image/post to a moderator.
How many have used it? M3-THUG to my recollection, is one of the only ones that has. And, wow, it was to report SF content in the gallery. To the best of my memory, there was only one other person that had done that as well. That doesn't indicate anyone is very inclined to follow through in helping avoid these messes.

[dolphinm]

I know that other places have a vetting procedure for posts before they are visible on the boards, if it is not possible to introduce this then the only answer must be to shut the section down.
Failure to do one or the other WILL lead to the closure of DAT and the loss of all galleries.
One person "full" time cannot and should not be asked to check all the images posted! Unless the vetting procedure is introduced so that he/she can do it in his/her own time without worrying about posts contrary to the rules being viewed.

[Soran]

Originally Posted by dolphinm

I know that other places have a vetting procedure for posts before they are visible on the boards, if it is not possible to introduce this then the only answer must be to shut the section down.
Failure to do one or the other WILL lead to the closure of DAT and the loss of all galleries.
One person "full" time cannot and should not be asked to check all the images posted! Unless the vetting procedure is introduced so that he/she can do it in his/her own time without worrying about posts contrary to the rules being viewed.

I think it's a good idea. If I was a Furry gallery mod I'd prefer this solution.

Anyway imo the best solution would be to combine gallery uploads moderation with different permissions per group.

Members of "Trusted" or "Veteran" group can post in Gallery without being moderated. Contributions of all other members are moderated. I call this setting "Partial Moderation".

Sure there's still a chance that a longstanding contributor makes a mistake or ignores the rules, but I think it would be a reasonable compromise.


As for people who spam to get the postcount up - I know it's a pain, I've to deal with such applicants in HF-Loli. However if postcount and {has been member for Y days} are combined there's a good chance that the mods spot the spammer and take care of him before he gets a promotion. Sure we still would need to deal with some spammers, but if they know that they need not only the postcount but also "Y days" it will stop at least a fraction of them. And if partial moderation will be used, the "Veteran" group should have very high requirements (so that it would be too much work for the most spammers)

[ichigo]

Originally Posted by Soran

I think it's a good idea. If I was a Furry gallery mod I'd prefer this solution.

Anyway imo the best solution would be to combine gallery uploads moderation with different permissions per group.

Members of "Trusted" or "Veteran" group can post in Gallery without being moderated. Contributions of all other members are moderated. I call this setting "Partial Moderation".

Sure there's still a chance that a longstanding contributor makes a mistake or ignores the rules, but I think it would be a reasonable compromise.


As for people who spam to get the postcount up - I know it's a pain, I've to deal with such applicants in HF-Loli. However if postcount and {has been member for Y days} are combined there's a good chance that the mods spot the spammer and take care of him before he gets a promotion. Sure we still would need to deal with some spammers, but if they know that they need not only the postcount but also "Y days" it will stop at least a fraction of them. And if partial moderation will be used, the "Veteran" group should have very high requirements (so that it would be too much work for the most spammers)

I agree with some of this, wholeheartedly, other parts, are an issue. As for postcounts, etc, thats easily done with some modifications to it, but one thing were finding out, photopost is NOT as flexible or friendly to modifications as vB is. So the postcount+membership for Y days, will have to be done by a human being for the time being. A rather hefty task considering multiple issues. First one being, go look at the poll results, and notably, the list of users that voted "Yes, I can't live without them." 90+% of those are LONGstanding members, yes. And again 90% of them have a ZERO post count. Forcing them in that manner, to become "active" members, by strong arming them, is just (no matter what point of view) wrong. In the end, that would alienate more users than anything else. Granted, with the furry section gone, they wouldn't be inclined to contribute anyways (moot point at this stage in the game.)

Another hot part of it, What gallery software do you use Soran? I am not a member of HF in any way, and avoid it as much as I avoid 4chan. But I am interested in things, as the version of ppost we play with, does NOT allow per category settings for moderations. It's ALL or none in the config, so turning on moderation required for only Furry = not an option. Nor is turning on moderation for the whole gallery, as the workload for the current staff would change by an order of thousands, in one instant.

[Soran]

Unfortunately I don't own a gallery script yet (still not sure which one to buy) but I think I've read many times that vBadvanced Gallery uses vBulletin groups, am I wrong?

With promotion function of vB you don't need to manually move the user in the advanced group. At least I could do it my test last night (vB 364).

As far as I know Photopost Pro is much worse in terms of integration with vB. Also the moderation of our new club members is still vB default one, there's not much to learn from it except how painful it can be, I'm sorry.

Regarding approvement of the new uploads in Furry section alone - even if it's not a default functionality - can't we make a hack for it? Or perhaps there is even a hack in Photopost forum? (since I don't own either of the scripts yet I can't check it...)

Hm... if nobody else has access to Photoshop forum I could speed up my decision to buy one of the scripts to get the forum access there today evening (though I'm still afraid I'll get the wrong one...)

Sure it makes sense only if we can install hacks in DAT gallery in general.

[M-3THUG]

Actually ichigo, my idea was having a joinable usergroup. Having X amount of posts is a pain and just gives people a reasion to spam. I'll come on the IRC after school and explain this 'joinable usergroups' idea further.

But in a nutshell, joinable usergroups can have an appointed usergroup leader, they can accept or decline incoming join requests. I have a good amount of experience with vBulliten, and for the things I don't know, I have hundreds of people to ask.

Here is an example.
http://www.mark-3halo.com/m3hforum/showthread.php?t=14

[Soran]

But how do you decide who can join and who not? Will you ask everyone "Have you read the rules?" Will you accept a user with 0 (1,2, etc) posts?
This is exactly the problem that I have as one of HF-Loli leaders. We have a rule that only users with 30+ can join. This solution does have flaws (people spam to get the postcount up sometimes), but still it greatly reduces the % of "bad apples". And sure if there is a requirement to have X posts and be forum member since Y days there should be an extra warning that the staff does a check what you've posted so far before approving you. That's what we do in HF-Loli: we say "you must have 30 non-spam posts to join".

If there is no requirement except "apply for Furry group and wait" (even if you have 0 posts) I don't think it will help to keep away the ones who post SexyFur.